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Mariah Carey Concern

Hello, I have noticed a glaring issue with the discography for Mariah Carey. Other female artists (Rihanna, Lady Gaga, Lil’ Kim, TLC, Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Madonna, Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Donna Summer, Britney Spears - compilation, Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston, etc.) have appropriately had album scores updated to five stars to reflect their respective classic albums, but this has not been done for Carey despite her level of influence and her insanely high-quality discography. It seems inexplicable that albums like Butterfly, Emancipation of Mimi, Daydream, Greatest Hits have not been updated to five stars to reflect their quality, influence, and classic status and likely makes AllMusic readers question editor bias. (Note: I don’t think this is the reason, but it likely is called into question by readers seeing her outdated page.) These albums are landmark R&B/pop works and universally lauded for their impact on the musical soundscape. Another concern - male artists with similar impact regularly have three/four albums with retrospective 5/5 scores while the females I mentioned usually only have one or two. I look forward to seeing this improvement, particularly as it applies to recognizing Carey’s contribution to music. 

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R

Pitchfork just released a 9.0 retrospective review for Emancipation of Mimi. https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/mariah-carey-the-emancipation-of-mimi/

One of their highest-scored reviews ever for a popular female album, but AllMusic is still behind the times in excluding it from a five-star review. They've rightfully increased them for other albums during that time (like Usher's Confessions, Aaliyah's Self-Titled - lots of male artists) and for the female artists listed in the OP but when will they do so for Mariah?

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JM

I browsed her AllMusic page and then searched for any threads about this. Was happy to find this one because I completely agree. It makes very little sense for an artist of her stature with the high-quality work she has released to not have scores reflecting it. I find it questionable for AllMusic to update scores for so many other female artists and not Mariah Carey with albums like Butterfly, Daydream, and The Emancipation all very worthy of five-star ratings.

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YM

I think she's media supported stardom! Sure she can sing, when she puts herself into her responsibilities 100% and not being a drunken joke seriously hemmoraging someone else's hard earned money and setting back female accomplishments in general at least two decades! Yeah, I mean she participates in the music industry, right, so i guess she gets a trophy, too, right??? I mean paticipating is everything, who cares about real talent and that it incorporates dedication and responsibility and looking out for someone other than yourself. I think she should get five wine glasses and the humanitarian narcissist life achievement award, too! For all those multitudes of things she's done for so many that helped her cope with her feelings of inadequacy and homicidal rage and murderous intent and self serving selfishness that those crazy narcissists are so darn swell coming up with to make it so crazy believeable that everybody else is fucking out of their ever loving mind's!!! Yeah, go Mariah, you know them hoes was all plotting and just wanting to be you! Yo showed them what a little creative chemical culinary cuisine can do for a girls self esteem, woo hoo! Dumb motherfuckers never knew what hit em, girl!!! Think they're tryna take my millions, ppfftt, human, please!!!

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R

Seek help

KN

Hi Morgan how are you

MR

I took a listen to a few of these albums and read up on the influence of the Butterfly and Emancipation albums. I do have to agree her scores are quite low when evaluated against all that has been written about these albums in particular. I guess no website will ever be truly foolproof in its methodology, but I think this thread presents very fair criticisms. 

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OK.

This topic seems to continue to be active so I decided to take a look at the folks chiming in on this thread and a lot of the individuals chiming in have nearly identical email addresses (looking at you, mariah******singing, vocal******technique and mariah*****techniques in particular).

Claiming to be Radiohead fans and Dolly Parton fans who all just happen to have an interest in the star ratings of Mariah Carey feels very disingenuous.

We try to have this be a forum for honest discussion.
Stop trying to game the system.

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9

Regardless, everything the OP said is accurate (and check mine - school address). I think a lot of people here are fans of various artists who agree her scores aren’t accurate.

I don't care about user ratings, except when an album lacks an Allmusic rating.  The more users who rate an album, it becomes harder for any individual fanboy to distort its user ratings.  That's why my comment about this question pointed out that Mariah's user ratings (in the hundreds) are lower than her Allmusic ratings.

9

It’s a VERY small sample size with those user ratings you mentioned and as someone said - they’re disproportionately low with female classics.

JM

Well I for one am not in that camp of fans or even typically a fan of female pop singers, but many people in this thread have made very valid points. I don't think it's fair to discredit that because of a couple of trolls.

J_

The way they refuse to give Butterfly its rightful 5/5 after all of this justification, lol. Just one measly half star. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if this was a male artist who released a classic like that album 

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D

When I saw this topic, I decided as a country western music fan to take a look at some of my favorite female artists of a similar caliber to Carey. Dolly Parton has one 5-star studio album and a whopping fourteen 4.5-star albums. That doesn't even include the multiple 5-star compilations on her page. Now I'm a huge Dolly fan, but I would be the first to admit that her studio albums have never been the strongest in comparison to her singles. This differs greatly from Mariah Carey who has an extremely strong set of albums. It is wild that she doesn't have two or three 5-star albums and compilations but not even one?! I guess every editing team has biases, but how can AllMusic claim objectivity with this flaw? Butterfly (an obvious 5-star), The Emancipation of Mimi, Mariah Carey (1990), and one of her compilations all need increased scores pronto. I could definitely see Daydream increased from 4.5 to 5 stars too.

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J_

And Adele is another with a 5/5 plus now a new 4.5/5. It’s ridiculous when you compare Mariah’s scores to the long list of other artists in this thread when you consider the timeless nature of her discography and its impact on popular music.  

and the updates they did are a joke. Half star to pacify everyone in this thread without giving her the 5/5s she deserves.

J_

Her profile needs additional updates, yes. I see they updated a couple of scores to 4 out of 5 stars but that’s not nearly enough. Kylie Minogue even has three albums and nearly six compilations with 4.5 stars and Mariah’s discography is far better and more influential than hers. Editors can have their own taste, but Mariah’s Butterfly not having a 5 of 5 star score is problematic.

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M

I’ve been wondering the same thing. Butterfly not having a five-star score would never happen with a male artist. It’s a classic album and wildly influential. Critics have consistently said that too.

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KN

I second this - her records are exquisite!!! both Butterfly and Charmbracelet are 5 star records and should be on more lists 

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R

Charmbracelet isn’t one of her best, but Butterfly is truly a masterpiece.

For her albums released in this century, AllMusic's ratings agree with MetaCritic's Metascores except on Glitter and The Emancipation of Mimi.  For Glitter, AllMusic's rating is about 30 while the Metascore was 59.  For Emancipation, Allmusic's rating is about 80 while the Metascore was 64.  (Metacritic's Metascores are original ratings, which won't be updated if a critic updates an original rating.)

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R

You’re again missing the conversation happening about the critical reappraisal her albums have received as well as the contrast in how AllMusic has updated 5/5 scores for other female artists in a way that wasn’t done for Carey. Many of the albums in the OP did not receive the level acclaim Daydream did even prior to retrospective acclaim, for instance. Many (maybe most) in the OP had mixed reviews but are now viewed as influential classics such as Butterfly or some of Carey’s other albums being mentioned in the comments.

I have passed this request along to the editorial team.

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R

Disappointed to see they just updated a couple to 80 without giving Butterfly, Daydream, Greatest Hits, and/or Emancipation 5/5. She’s one of those artists who deserves several, but has none. Makes no sense - especially when seeing the list of artists in the OP. Let alone male artists of her stature, quality, and influence who have multiple 5/5 updated albums.

R

Butterfly in particular is heralded universally as a masterpiece in its influence. 

In the years since its release, Butterfly has been hailed as being an R&B classic.[44] In a retrospective review for The Washington Post, Bethonie Butler focused on the album's impact, stating that it "changed the face of pop music" by paving "the way for other pop stars...to sing alongside their rap contemporaries".[45] Writing for Jezebel, Rich Juzwiak focused on the influence of Carey's vocal stylings in the track "Breakdown", remarking that "in this day and age, when there’s so much genre blending that it’s sometimes impossible to label an artist as merely “singer” or “rapper,” it'd be foolish to understate the prescience of" the song.[44] A profile of the album in Essence by Jessica Littles further stated that the album "catalyzed the pop music trend of collaborating with hip-hop artists", concluding that it "not only showcased her [Carey's] already-established prowess as a vocalist, who could belt out ballads or flirt over the hottest summer jams, but also as one of the most versatile songwriters in contemporary music".[46] In a recent list compiled by a selection of rock critics, Butterfly was chosen as one of the 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die.[50]

PK

Although it is nice that two albums got updated it is still absolutely transparent that there are double standards for Mariah. This has been going on since the beginning of her career and it is beyond ridiculous that it is still very much present 2021. Disappointed but not surprised. 

R

Can you update the request to include the justification for a Butterfly 5/5? It’s pretty universally considered an influential classic.

M

Good evidence provided in this thread for Butterfly’s score to be improved to five stars.

PK

it's an absolute crime how underrated her discography is. Daydream, Butterfly, Emancipation, The Remixes all deserve 5/5. 

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R

Even P!nk has four 4.5/5 albums. I’d say it’s fair to say the editing team is not being objective with Mariah considering the strength of her discography.

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M

It’s honestly insulting and feels personal, yeah. Butterfly alone not being 5/5 is a major flaw

R

YES! It truly makes no sense. I saw Selena Q had her last album updated as well to add to that list of names. Mariah has half a dozen classic albums with retrospective acclaim and AllMusic updating zero to 5/5 scores (only one LP with 4.5!!)  is very questionable to me. I understand editors have their preferences, but someone like Mariah who is as monumental and influential in music - and with such a great discography - deserves objectivity.

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R

Shakira as well.  One updated to 5/5 and FOUR 4.5/5 albums. Mariah’s scores are so outdated.

In terms of average user rating, Daydream averaged 4 stars as her highest-rated album (still slightly lower than Allmusic's rating).  According to the FAQ, "in 1993 an editor may have given Radiohead's Pablo Honey four-and-a-half stars when it came out, being one of the best Britpop albums to date. As time goes on and Radiohead releases The Bends, OK Computer, Kid A, etc, Pablo Honey may not warrant being their highest-rated album."

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R

That doesn’t address the question. Also, user scores are disproportionately harsh on female artists and do not correlate for the above mentioned females with retrospective 5/5. Small sample size for 90s albums as well.

D

I think I saw a petition about this. I've wondered the same thing especially about Butterfly. It changed the sound of pop/R&B fusion and it's widely considered a classic. 

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R

Emancipation of Mimi as well - just recently made Rolling Stone’s All-Time Greatest. Usher’s Confessions from that same era was updated, but not sure why Emancipation of Mimi is still stuck at 3/5.

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